Comments on: The Beginning of The End http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/ The road to 42. Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:02:42 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Guía Mundial de Países » Blog Archive » El offshoring perdiendo popularidad en USA http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-114 Guía Mundial de Países » Blog Archive » El offshoring perdiendo popularidad en USA Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:02:42 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-114 [...] con los resultados de enviar trabajos a dicho país. Me ha parecido bastante interesante el post publicado en The Tired Architect en el que se predice el fin del offshoring en la India. Siendo un comentario [...] [...] con los resultados de enviar trabajos a dicho país. Me ha parecido bastante interesante el post publicado en The Tired Architect en el que se predice el fin del offshoring en la India. Siendo un comentario [...]

]]> By: Peter Melnikov http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-87 Peter Melnikov Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:55:54 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-87 IT will just shift to a more favorable destinations like Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, China. That's the clear tendency I see being a marketing manager for an offshore outsourcing company. In Belarus we do not feel the decline of dollar much b/c the economy is being structured around US dollar and the exchange rate for Belorussian ruble/dollar remains the same. IT will just shift to a more favorable destinations like Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, China. That’s the clear tendency I see being a marketing manager for an offshore outsourcing company. In Belarus we do not feel the decline of dollar much b/c the economy is being structured around US dollar and the exchange rate for Belorussian ruble/dollar remains the same.

]]> By: The beginning of the end (IT outsourcing to India)? « Audible Smirk http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-86 The beginning of the end (IT outsourcing to India)? « Audible Smirk Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:43:13 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-86 [...] http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/ [...] [...] http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/ [...]

]]> By: NP http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-83 NP Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:27:42 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-83 Me: I am an Architect of Indian origin. I did all my schooling in India and came to US 25 years ago. I never held a job in India. Comments: The original prediction about doomsday scenario seems real. The event that are predicted; may in fact begin to surface and show in next 2-5 years. I have to agree with many observations that code developed by Indian outsourced psuedo Software Developers is of low quality. I have seen that myself. Yes, bad code (it is subjective in some sense) is written by everybody. But the code written by Indian outsourced Software developers is very visible; simply because a large base of psuedo Software Engineers. But this is nothing new. There is an opportunity on part of Indian Outsourced Software Industry to improve. I am not old enough to have seen this; but around WW2; Japanese were known for poor quality in manufacturing. We all know how that changed in next few decades. Is it likely to happen with Indian Outsourced Software Development Industry? I have a pessimistic view. That view is shaped by some fundamental traits in the culture and society; the attitude towards long term thinking vs. short term quick bucks; investment in infrastructure etc. So I think Indian Software Developers will not be able to shed the perception of poor coders for a long time. It will be synonymous with poor quality, "you get what you pay for" metaphors. It takes a few years before a seasoned developer starts get good instincts and Indian developers (yes, I am generalizing here), by and large; are not getting that baking-in period. Revolution will be over after first initial chest thumping. Me: I am an Architect of Indian origin. I did all my schooling in India and came to US 25 years ago. I never held a job in India.
Comments: The original prediction about doomsday scenario seems real. The event that are predicted; may in fact begin to surface and show in next 2-5 years. I have to agree with many observations that code developed by Indian outsourced psuedo Software Developers is of low quality. I have seen that myself. Yes, bad code (it is subjective in some sense) is written by everybody. But the code written by Indian outsourced Software developers is very visible; simply because a large base of psuedo Software Engineers.

But this is nothing new. There is an opportunity on part of Indian Outsourced Software Industry to improve. I am not old enough to have seen this; but around WW2; Japanese were known for poor quality in manufacturing. We all know how that changed in next few decades.

Is it likely to happen with Indian Outsourced Software Development Industry? I have a pessimistic view. That view is shaped by some fundamental traits in the culture and society; the attitude towards long term thinking vs. short term quick bucks; investment in infrastructure etc. So I think Indian Software Developers will not be able to shed the perception of poor coders for a long time. It will be synonymous with poor quality, “you get what you pay for” metaphors. It takes a few years before a seasoned developer starts get good instincts and Indian developers (yes, I am generalizing here), by and large; are not getting that baking-in period. Revolution will be over after first initial chest thumping.

]]> By: Amit Agarwalla http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-82 Amit Agarwalla Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:05:02 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-82 I think outsourcing as a concept will continue to exist since it is driven by the economic disparity between different parts of the world, whether India gets a pie of it or not depends on the simple principle of 'survival of the fittest'. Whichever company learns to adapt to this equation will continue to get assignments. I think outsourcing as a concept will continue to exist since it is driven by the economic disparity between different parts of the world, whether India gets a pie of it or not depends on the simple principle of ’survival of the fittest’. Whichever company learns to adapt to this equation will continue to get assignments.

]]> By: The Atmakuri Davidsen Blog : India Outsourcing vs. India Education http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-81 The Atmakuri Davidsen Blog : India Outsourcing vs. India Education Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:05:48 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-81 [...] Anonymous Bangalore Architect has written an interesting article on how outsourcing to India is at The beginning of the end. He has a lot of valid points of the current state of outsourcing in India, mainly too many people [...] [...] Anonymous Bangalore Architect has written an interesting article on how outsourcing to India is at The beginning of the end. He has a lot of valid points of the current state of outsourcing in India, mainly too many people [...]

]]> By: Hrishikesh http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-80 Hrishikesh Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:49:43 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-80 Oops. "It feels more like an observation of the current state of things leading to a prediction." should have been "It feels more like an observation on the current state of things leading to a prediction." Oops.
“It feels more like an observation of the current state of things leading to a prediction.”
should have been
“It feels more like an observation on the current state of things leading to a prediction.”

]]> By: Hrishikesh http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-79 Hrishikesh Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:47:40 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-79 @Ashu: Computer science students who are really interested in programming should not have to wait for their final year projects to pick up or hone their skills. Going by the same logic, 'slacking off' in the final year should not lead to such weaknesses as is under discussion here. Most such Indian degrees courses have a basic programming course in the first year itself(in Pascal or C). And believe me (I speak from personal experience) the quality of a final year dissertation tells you nothing authoritative about the people who worked on it. There is a 50/50 chance that if project is good, the people who worked on it will be good as well. I don't think that the author of this blog is singling out Indians. It feels more like an observation of the current state of things leading to a prediction. @Ashu: Computer science students who are really interested in programming should not have to wait for their final year projects to pick up or hone their skills. Going by the same logic, ’slacking off’ in the final year should not lead to such weaknesses as is under discussion here. Most such Indian degrees courses have a basic programming course in the first year itself(in Pascal or C). And believe me (I speak from personal experience) the quality of a final year dissertation tells you nothing authoritative about the people who worked on it. There is a 50/50 chance that if project is good, the people who worked on it will be good as well.
I don’t think that the author of this blog is singling out Indians. It feels more like an observation of the current state of things leading to a prediction.

]]> By: Ashu http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-78 Ashu Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:59:00 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-78 Personally I don't think the problem is with skill level or the dedication or the hard-work of the youngsters. This might be the assertion of an oldie who is just is not able to accept the fact that youngsters these days are paid many times higher than what he or she earned 10 years back. As I see the problem, I blame it on the big outsourcing companies that recruit students in masses even in the 3rd year of their engineering degrees. This makes the otherwise hard-working and passionate young engineers to slack off and fail to hone their most required programming skills as part of their final year projects. This results in young engineers who are not yet ready for the big exposure. So in my opinion, these companies have to base their recruitment on the final year project/dissertation of every individual and this will in itself improve the quality of the engineers that India produces by large extent. I strongly disagree with the fact that Indian outsourcing is a problem. I have seen bad code written by men and women from all parts of the world. Just singling out Indians because they are far more spread out in the IT arena makes no sense. It wouldn't take too long to realise that once the outsourcing starts spreading to other countries that bad code problems lie everywhere. It all lies in achieving maturity in the process of producing quality engineers and in fact I think India will be the first to refine this process and the all the other candidate countries will follow the same strategy. As we all know, concepts require improvisation before they become mature and I truly believe that this is the phase of improvisation if the big outsourcing companies take steps towards it. Personally I don’t think the problem is with skill level or the dedication or the hard-work of the youngsters. This might be the assertion of an oldie who is just is not able to accept the fact that youngsters these days are paid many times higher than what he or she earned 10 years back. As I see the problem, I blame it on the big outsourcing companies that recruit students in masses even in the 3rd year of their engineering degrees. This makes the otherwise hard-working and passionate young engineers to slack off and fail to hone their most required programming skills as part of their final year projects. This results in young engineers who are not yet ready for the big exposure. So in my opinion, these companies have to base their recruitment on the final year project/dissertation of every individual and this will in itself improve the quality of the engineers that India produces by large extent.

I strongly disagree with the fact that Indian outsourcing is a problem. I have seen bad code written by men and women from all parts of the world. Just singling out Indians because they are far more spread out in the IT arena makes no sense. It wouldn’t take too long to realise that once the outsourcing starts spreading to other countries that bad code problems lie everywhere. It all lies in achieving maturity in the process of producing quality engineers and in fact I think India will be the first to refine this process and the all the other candidate countries will follow the same strategy. As we all know, concepts require improvisation before they become mature and I truly believe that this is the phase of improvisation if the big outsourcing companies take steps towards it.

]]> By: Jon H http://antipattern.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/#comment-77 Jon H Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:10:52 +0000 http://antipattern.wordpress.com/?p=14#comment-77 I don't believe race has anything to do with development skill. I believe it is created by two scenarios. A. CS universities churning out CS majors like a factory. B. People entering CS as a job, and not a passion. I don't have a CS degree. However, I've been a programmer for almost 10 years. To me, programming was a passion that I was lucky enough to get paid for. The difference in quality code is simple. Do you love what you do? If not, you probably shouldn't be doing it, and your work will show it. As far as this blog entry, I believe the author is absolutely correct. The outsourcing projects I am involved with have been abysmal nightmares, despite our onshore best efforts to keep things under control. There is no savings in development if I have to rewrite all the code once we receive it. This is nothing new to us, the developers. It is only a painful realization that the upper level project managers who only thing in dollars are finally starting to get. I don’t believe race has anything to do with development skill.

I believe it is created by two scenarios.

A. CS universities churning out CS majors like a factory.

B. People entering CS as a job, and not a passion.

I don’t have a CS degree. However, I’ve been a programmer for almost 10 years. To me, programming was a passion that I was lucky enough to get paid for.

The difference in quality code is simple. Do you love what you do? If not, you probably shouldn’t be doing it, and your work will show it.

As far as this blog entry, I believe the author is absolutely correct. The outsourcing projects I am involved with have been abysmal nightmares, despite our onshore best efforts to keep things under control. There is no savings in development if I have to rewrite all the code once we receive it.

This is nothing new to us, the developers. It is only a painful realization that the upper level project managers who only thing in dollars are finally starting to get.

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